This is Leaders in Finance, a podcast where we find out more about the people behind their successful career. We speak with the leaders of today and tomorrow to discuss their motivations, their organisations and their personal lives. Why? Because the financial sector could use a little more honest conversation. We’d like to thank our partners for their ongoing support. They are: EY, MeDirect, RiskQuest, Kayak and Roland Berger. Your host is Jeroen Broekema.
Jeroen: Welcome to a new episode of Leaders in Finance. I’m delighted that you’re listening to this extra episode and this extra episode is live recorded at the Leaders in Finance Future of Wealth event 2024 here from Fort Voordorp in the Netherlands. I’m very happy to have a number of great guests with me who were all actively participating at this event. It’s great you are all here, and I’m sure you will introduce yourselves. Next to introducing yourselves, I would love you to tell me and the audience what your role was today. So, first of all, Marije Tolsma-Groen, I’m very glad you are here. I give you the mic, please introduce yourself as well as tell the audience what your role was.
Marije: Thank you, Jeroen. I’m Marije Tolsma-Groen, and I was delighted to be the host of today’s event. It was a good thing I didn’t have to do it by myself yesterday, I was in very good company, I can tell you. The powerhouse of the Financial Times, Yuri Bender, very much an expert in the field of Wealth Management, was there as well. He had some interesting and good questions for our audience. So, I very much enjoyed the session of today.
Jeroen: Wonderful! You were a great moderator, I must say. Next to you is Frank Schrijver, he is a partner at Roland Berger. Please, Frank, take the floor.
Frank: Thanks! I was really happy to be given the possibility to give an introduction on asset allocations and developments within that space. And also provide the insides on alternative assets and our view on the growth of alternative assets, and give the floor to four pitches. Which I think was really inspiring. They are really different in what they aim for and also how they provide solutions to their clients. I think having four different types of pitches is really inspiring and hopefully, it’s also really inspiring for maybe the more traditional banks who tend to do things already for 100–150 years.
Jeroen: And maybe Frank, just as a very short follow-up, but maybe in one or two sentences, what were the kind of pitches? What were they about?
Frank: We had one pitch of Mogelijk, who facilitates investing in real estate. So not homeownership, but commercial real estate. We had a Pitch from Gold Republic, who provided basically tokenised ownership of gold. We had Stoic Investing, which is basically an alternative asset registry, but as he said, it’s an alternative way of doing wealth management. I think you should just look into it, and then you get inspired by just hearing their story and their solution. And we had Carbon Equity, which basically provides an opportunity to do a direct investment in a fund-on-fund solution. But then all with the ambition to make the world better.
Jeroen: That’s a great summary. Thanks, Frank! Next to you is Chris Zegers, who is the Managing Director Private Clients Specialities at Van Lanschot/Evi. Please, the floor to you.
Chris: One of these banks is over three hundred years old, but having this beautiful daughter, Evi, an online wealth manager, I guess a very interesting day. And what struck me the most is that a lot of the topics that we have been discussing are the same. For example, if you look at the use of data and AI, I guess also looking at new target clients, NextGen, entrepreneurs and everything else, and how to distribute that, that is a real challenge. To me, it was an inspiring day. We had a focus on pension.
Jeroen: You were on the pension panel, right?
Chris: Yes, I was on the pension panel. Something that is close at heart to us because we will launch our new product soon in the coming weeks. But also given the fact that we have the large changes in the Dutch pension laws and everything else. So, I enjoyed it.
Jeroen: That’s great, thank you! Next to you is Job Mantz, who is the Country Manager at MeDirect here in the Netherlands. Job, the floor to you.
Job: I was part of the strategic panel this morning. Very good and very senior level, if I may say so, where Sybelle Gielisse from Rabobank, Bernt Kok from BNP Paribas, Frank Koster from InsingerGilissen and Alen Zeljkovic from ABN AMRO were participating as well. We discussed multiple topics, from tech to sustainable investing. And what struck me most is the fact that you hear those – and I’m obviously from a more technology-oriented company – more traditional banks also looking into tech, but also with a critical note from my side, are they really changing? Is change in their DNA? Over the day, you can really hear positive things. I’m positively surprised. But the feeling I had when I was leaving the panel was, “What will we change? What will next year bring?”
Jeroen: Right. And just one more question for you from my side, Job. I think a lot of people in the Netherlands, you are working very hard on your brand awareness, know MeDirect. Still, compared to Roland Berger, EY, Van Lanschot, you’re probably or arguably–
Job: The Benjamin.
Jeroen: The Benjamin, yes, if you say so. But anyway, could you just say in one or two sentences what MeDirect actually is? What do you guys do?
Job: Sure. In the Netherlands, we are maybe the youngest bank. We provide wealth solutions and savings to retail customers. We originated from Malta, we also have a bank in Belgium, which is actually the largest one in the group. And we started in May of last year. As I said, focusing on accumulating wealth, making sure that our customers have all the abilities and all the products and solutions to reach their wealth optimum and to really have all the tools in their toolbox to create more wealth.
Jeroen: Great, thank you. With a couple of commas, there were two sentences. Thank you so much! And last but not least, Boudewijn Chalmers, partner at EY.
Boudewijn: Yes, Boudewijn Chalmers. I really enjoyed the day, first of all. I think wealth management – and that is for all the people here on the podcast – is close to our heart and something that we really like to speak about. I was lucky enough to share the pension panel, where actually more how the changes in the pension system provide an opportunity for wealth managers as well as wealth management organisations. That was with Chris, but also with Joost Tieland from Brand New Day and Bart Hosten from Rabobank. I think we were able to provide quite a nice balanced discussion, but also with a different perspective, driven by the focus on the pension sector of each of the organisations, maybe at different points in time. But also, obviously, what individualisation in the pension system actually is going to mean for members, for all our clients. And I think we had a great debate about that.
Jeroen: I agree with that. Actually, I’m going to steal your own idea, which was at the end of the panel – if I’m not mistaken – you did ask the panellists about the new pension scheme, whether that is the next big thing in wealth management. That was the title of the panel. Could you summarise what the answer was? Is it the next big thing in wealth management?
Boudewijn: Bart said actually yes, but I’m not sure in that sense if it’s the next big thing. But it’s something that absolutely cannot be ignored. And I think everyone is in complete agreement around that. So, the way to address it, the role that you play in that as a wealth management organisation is going to be quite critical, and we’re speaking about guidance and the importance of providing that to the members of the pension funds and the clients of wealth management organisations. So, it cannot be ignored. Is it the biggest thing? I don’t know. There are many big things happening, I think that is what we can conclude based on today as well.
Jeroen: That’s maybe already one of the couple key takeaways. For people who didn’t join today, you should have, of course, but if you did not, maybe we can give a couple of key takeaways from you guys. Just a couple of thoughts that you thought were really key to the future of wealth, basically. Because that was the title of the day. So, anyone who likes to take the floor, please do.
Job: I’m interested in Marije because she was moderating the event. So, you were engaged in all the discussions, I’m really interested to hear what your thoughts are.
Marije: I think my main conclusion is that I should start investing in gold. That was definitely one of the key takeaways that I wasn’t expecting upfront. A very nice event, I think it’s always your challenge, Jeroen, to build an agenda that is both appealing but also not too heavy. I think that’s one of the challenges that you’re facing. I enjoyed the pitches in the afternoon, which were a bit more playful and maybe a good break after lunch for people to jump into and get a bit more energetic. Very interesting speakers, high-level speakers as well. I was particularly pleased to see some female powerhouses on the stage, such as Sybelle, who you mentioned. But also, Karin van Baardwijk from Robeco and Choy in the morning. So a very good line-up of speakers and very impressive. As a moderator, that makes it only easier and more fun to engage with such a crowd.
Frank: One of the key takeaways for me is also that maybe traditionally people think about wealth management that it is not that open, it’s a bit of a black box. I saw a lot of openness and a lot of sharing of information that maybe was not shared between competitors five or ten years ago. And everybody agreed on the developments and the things that they should address, but they were also open about how they were addressing it. If you had a discussion on AI or data, everybody was sharing what they were doing. I even learned that I can now figure out whether I have added value in a meeting or not, so the next time I’ll definitely use AI to get that clear for myself. I liked that a lot. And also, in my insights in alternative assets and addressing the opportunities of tokenisation, at least two large asset managers were addressing it. Amundi, of course, were already doing it, BlackRock was considering it. So that also sounds interesting.
Jeroen: That’s wonderful!
Chris: Not to be forgotten that we had two great speakers, a Chief Investment Officer that came up with a really great story about how the world is changing and what we could do with it. Proving that maybe over the past 25 years, we were in a different reality and now inflation is going to disrupt that. So that was something special. And the second one was about marketing. That struck me because last week I was in Berlin, where you had an international fair where speakers from all over the globe were talking about AI and everything else. And they came with the same conclusion, that if you have a brand, investing in that brand and keeping the values of the brand in the future differentiates you from other people. A nice example is that if I say ‘Volvo’, probably everyone thinks about safety. When I say ‘BMW’, everybody thinks about the joy of driving. He was also pointing out that in the wealth management industry we have great brands, should invest in them and maintain their values. That was also an interesting angle during the day.
Jeroen: Thank you.
Job: When I approach these kinds of events, I want to get inspired about what we can change in our organisation, based on what people are saying. I was really interested in hearing about the new pension scheme, which for me personally is a topic that I don’t address that much. So I was really interested in hearing what Joost Tieland was saying about what Brand New Day is doing and how they approach the market, which is inspiring for me. They are approaching the market very aggressively, maybe a little bit. But in a good way. That’s very inspiring for me. But also, the pitches were a nice way of: How can we at MeDirect change our platform to improve it and increase the product line so that we maybe collaborate with those companies that were pitching to improve our product suite? So it was inspiring, and the key takeaways are that there are a lot of new products in the pipeline and there are a lot of new ways for customers to accumulate wealth. On the negative side, what maybe disappointed me a bit was that the focus was – and that is logical from the attendees – a lot about the high net worth or the really affluent customers. I missed the way companies approach the bottom half of that spectrum, so how they approach a mass affluent or even retail customers to eventually become that affluent customer. We sometimes touched on that topic, the younger generations, which are going to accumulate a lot of wealth. Especially millennials will inherit a lot of money. How do companies approach that? That was something I missed, maybe a good topic for next year.
Jeroen: Good one! I’ll write it down.
Boudewijn: A lot has been said, and I think just like there are multiple take-outs to be taken from the day, I think I wrote down a couple as well. First of all, we’re not in this alone. Everyone is facing similar types of challenges, but also finding the solutions. It’s not a way to do that alone. Alen Zeljkovic from ABN AMRO highlighted the importance of partnering on the technology side, but at the same time it’s knowing where you can actually differentiate, based on the relationship there. I think we all agree that our clients need the guidance on advice and the support because it remains quite complex, which is an interesting switch to what Edmund said around keeping it simple to be well understood. That’s not only on a single product, but I think that is, in general, quite an important statement to keep in mind. Lastly, I think I used it in my introduction for the panel, the volume of change and the pace of change is significant. I think it’s probably still the greatest challenge for the industry in general. In a way, you need to follow, and you need to do it all. But you still need to prioritise consistently. There is a risk that you are so internally focused on keeping up with the changes. We need to keep in mind who we are doing this for, and that is ultimately the end client. I think there is a lot to look forward to, but there is a lot to focus on as well.
You’re listening to Leaders in Finance with Jeroen Broekema.
Jeroen: Given we are very close to having some drinks together, as I said, this is a live recording, on a not that serious note, is there something from today that you may not forget or found somewhat funny or surprising or something along those lines?
Marije: I would have to say, who I thought was really funny but maybe not intentionally funny all the time was Yuri. First of all, like I said, he’s a powerhouse and a walking encyclopaedia when it comes to wealth management. But his parallels when it comes to football analogies or when he was talking about music and song titles, I had a lot of fun with that. So I definitely will remember that.
Jeroen: For people listening, Marije was referring to Yuri Bender, who is the Editor-in-Chief at PWM, a part of the Financial Times group. Just for context. Someone else to add here, Chris?
Chris: I really enjoyed, like I said before, the Chief Investment Officer, his great story and great slides. He was really pushing us. He was wearing the suit and then sneakers, so I said to the colleague sitting next to me, “This is really an international guy, look at him! He is wearing his English suit but with sneakers.” You never see it, but then he came up and said, “I just forgot my other shoes, sorry for that.”
Jeroen: Chris, he said that he forgot, but was that a fact, you think?
Chris: I don’t know.
Jeroen: Or was he just playing with us here? I wasn’t sure.
Chris: The sneakers and the happy socks and then the almost English suit, it was great, together with his stories. I will remember that.
Frank: I just want to follow up with Marije, and being an Ajax fan, it’s also a bit getting anxious for tonight and not in a good way. And then he referred me too many times to the game to Tottenham Hotspur. So that also says something about being a Tottenham Hotspur fan, that you can only talk about one moment in time.
Job: On a serious note, the atmosphere is beautiful. So thank you, Jeroen, for inviting us to this beautiful environment. Fort Voordorp is a beautiful old fortress and that is such a nice environment to have these discussions. But on a not so serious note, what I really appreciated was the openness and also the less formal way we were discussing things. The jokes that were made, like you mentioned, the jokes Yuri made, but to the point.
Boudewijn: I almost have nothing to add. I think it was a great day, a great turnout, great line-up, very well-organised. Jumping to next year’s topics, what we want to see there. There are so many different topics we can cover next year, it’s interesting to follow.
Jeroen: Can you name one?
Boudewijn: I struggle with one, but how the industry is evolving in a year’s time, I would say focus on client value and how we go about that. I think that is quite interesting. I mentioned it during the panel, talent is the number one challenge for private banks and wealth management organisations. I think we can spend more time on that and how you really do that. Although Choy gave an example on how to do it on a female talent pool and playing into that. So there is a lot to cover. That is probably what also makes it so exciting to discuss the wealth management industry.
Jeroen: Great! It’s a great segue to actually ask the same question you asked yourself, and you did answer it as well. Which is: are there particular speakers or topics you’d love to see next year? This is just to support Leaders in Finance as well in planning next year’s event, so do you have something? Maybe a name or a particular topic that you would love to see next year, I’d be delighted to write it down.
Marije: Like Job referred to, I think people understand different things by wealth management. And I think maybe tapping into that potential next time would be interesting. I’m just thinking of maybe doing some breakout sessions where you could tailor for different audiences with a different clientele or a different distribution to make it even more valuable for them to participate in the event.
Frank: I would love that we would put the client even more on stage, to have the point of view of the client. Because we talk a lot about the clients and I think that is the key differentiator which will change it or not change it or how to change it. So I think it would be good if we somehow could challenge the voice of the customer next year.
Jeroen: I hope you can invite some ultra-high net worth individuals for me, that would be great!
Chris: Otherwise, for sure I can give a hand, inviting them. It would also be very interesting to ask somebody from AFM or somebody on the board of a pension fund to elaborate a bit more on their strategic perspective in terms of looking at the market and their own role. And also the opportunities they see, working together or as a pension fund. So to me, the level playing field and also the new parties that are entering the segment, like the pension funds, that is really a new development that is great to overlook.
Jeroen: Great. Job, anything to add here?
Job: To add to customers, it would be lovely if we had a real customer telling us what they want. But what I would also be interested in is what advisors think about the market and how they perceive that customer and how that customer is changing. It’s really interesting to hear from them how they perceive that. That would be a good addition as well.
Boudewijn: I know I had my turn, but one word that hasn’t been used during the whole day, which is actually quite surprising when we’re talking about wealth management – and yes, it’s going to the upper segment – is the whole term around family offices. If you think about the future of wealth management, you cannot ignore it. It’s been a hot topic in the industry and I think agenda-wise, you need to pick and choose. But I would say for next year, if we give it the same title of the future of wealth management, there needs to be a place for them as well.
Jeroen: Great! Well, guys, thank you so much! As I said earlier, I think this was a very precious time because we postponed a drink together and that is what this group will probably be doing now. For the ones listening to this extra episode of Leaders in Finance live from the Future of Wealth event, please listen to all the other episodes. Thank you so much for listening. For now, my guests, thank you so much for sharing your thoughts with me. I hope to see you next year!
You’ve been listening to Leaders in Finance. We hope you have enjoyed the episode, and we’d love to hear from you. What’s on your mind? Who would you like to hear next? Tell us in an Apple or Google review via e-mail or our social media channels. We’d greatly appreciate it. Finally, we’d like to thank our partners for their ongoing support. They are: EY, RiskQuest, MeDirect, Kayak and Roland Berger. Thank you for listening!