Voice-over: This is Leaders in Finance, a podcast where we find out more about the people behind a successful career. We speak with the leaders of today and tomorrow to discuss their motivations, their organizations, and their personal lives. Why? Because the financial sector could use a little more honest conversation. Our guest this week has an impressive international career — from Istanbul to Amsterdam, from St. Petersburg to Almaty, and back again. But in the end, family is what matters most to her.
Zeynep: I speak to my mother probably two or three times a day. My father every two days. Yes, very close. Very much.
Voice-over: One of the things that keeps driving her forward is her curiosity.
Zeynep: Anything that is new and innovation, I’m interested in. It’s just whether you call it tech or not, because innovation by itself is not only technology. But I’m super interested in tech for sure, because it’s a key element of innovation.
Voice-over: And her most important piece of advice for young leaders.
Zeynep: Don’t stay in your comfort zone. Don’t accept the status quo, and dare to lead. Dare to do things you have not done before. Dare to fail.
Voice-over: Our guest this week is Zeynep Deldag, partner and Head of Consulting at EY Netherlands. Your host is Jeroen Broekema.
Jeroen: Welcome to a new episode of the Leaders in Finance Podcast. I’m very, very happy that you are tuning in today. And this week, our guest is Zeynep Deldag, who is a partner at EY and Head of Consulting in the Netherlands. Welcome, Zeynep. Thank you. I’m very happy you’re here. We’ve known each other for quite a while already, but finally we’re doing this long-awaited podcast interview. So I’m really, really glad you’re here.
And before I introduce you, I would like to thank the partners of Leaders in Finance for their ongoing support. They are Kayak, EY, Mogelijk Vastgoedfinancieringen, Lepaya and Roland Berger. I’m very grateful for my partners because without them there would be no podcast.
Now let’s move on to my guest. And as a good tradition, I’ll start by spelling the name of my guest. That is Zeynep, Z-E-Y-N-E-P. And then Deldag is D-E-L-D-A-G.
Zeynep is a partner at EY and Head of Consulting for the Netherlands, as I mentioned before, where she leads the entire consulting practice across technology, business, risk and people advisory, and across all sectors. She is also a client-serving partner for some of the world’s largest banks and insurers.
Before stepping into her current role, Zeynep spent over two decades building an international career that has taken her from Istanbul to Amsterdam, from Amsterdam to St. Petersburg, to Almaty in Kazakhstan, and then back to Istanbul — and again to Amsterdam. In the meantime, she also spent a period in London. She has been pretty much everywhere.
Long before all of that, she studied economics at Marmara University.
After her studies, she joined Andersen, where she worked on audit and due-diligence projects for major Turkish banks before moving to EY in 2002, following the Andersen–EY merger in Turkey. Over the years, Zeynep has held several senior management positions across different countries, and in 2012 she became a partner at EY.
From 2022 to 2025, she served as Chief Innovation Officer, driving the digital transformation of audit within financial services across Europe, the Middle East, India and Africa.
And finally, Zeynep, you are 49 years old, you live with your husband in Amsterdam, and you have two pretty grown-up kids — I think 15 and 19, if I’m not mistaken — who live in the US.
So this long introduction already gives a view of who you are. And when I was preparing for this conversation, and also when I just read this introduction here at the podcast, there’s one thing that obviously stands out, which is that you have lived pretty much across the world. How many countries have you lived in? Do you know?
Zeynep: I don’t know by heart, to be honest. I don’t know by heart, but I think almost 10 countries, I would say — definitely not less than 10.
Jeroen: You spent quite some time in Turkey. What’s the number-two country? The Netherlands, in terms of time?
Zeynep: In terms of number of years, that’s definitely the Netherlands.
Jeroen: Was that always a drive for you — to live in other countries?
Zeynep: Well, actually, when I was a small kid, because of my father’s work, it all started when I was even in primary school. We started to live from one country to another, so we were just moving. I lived in various countries when I was a small child. And since then, that path has continued. And I love it. I love it. So it just fitted me perfectly fine.
Jeroen: So what makes it so nice to be in different countries every few years? I mean, you’ve been in the Netherlands for a long time now, but what makes it so interesting for you?
Zeynep: It’s about knowing different cultures. It’s about getting to know how different cultures are, getting to know different people, their way of living, their interpretation of backgrounds and everything. And it also gives you an amazing perspective — it shapes your own character as well, because coping with different cultures, coping with different backgrounds… when you start doing this at a very small age, you eventually get out of your comfort zone and become a person who can deal with different personalities and different characters quite easily. And it helps your agility as well.
Jeroen: So if you had to choose between being a global citizen or being Turkish, would you still be Turkish number one, or…?
Zeynep: Well, I always say my blood is red and I’m Turkish. But when people ask me, “Where are you from?” I say I’m from Turkey, yes, but I definitely am a global citizen of all the countries I’ve lived in.
Jeroen: How many languages do you speak?
Zeynep: I speak three languages. It’s English, German, and a little bit of Dutch as well — but not good.
Jeroen: Sounds good though.
Zeynep: But I try my best. So yes, three languages, I would say. And a bit of Russian as well.
Jeroen: Yeah, when you live there, I can see that. So about the Netherlands — obviously I’m curious because most of the people that listen to this podcast are Dutch. What is typical about living here? Do you still have the outside perspective, or is it hard to look at the Netherlands as a place to live and work?
Zeynep: Well, honestly, I love living in the Netherlands. I simply love living in the Netherlands, and I get a little bit frustrated when Dutch people complain about the Netherlands. Because even not only comparing it to other countries, but also to the rest of the European Union — the minute you drive outside of Amsterdam, you exit the border of Amsterdam, you immediately realize when you’re outside of Amsterdam or the Netherlands because of the whole infrastructure, the roads… I mean, it’s such an organized city. It’s not chaotic, and there are a lot of opportunities. It’s a location of innovation. I just love being in the Netherlands. I love the pace, but at the same time the comfort and security here.
Jeroen: So what you’re basically saying is that people are complaining, but they actually don’t know how well things are going here?
Zeynep: Well, probably they’ve always lived the good life, so they are not aware of what it means to survive or to go through difficult times. Anyone who lives in the Netherlands should be extremely grateful — that’s my view.
Jeroen: And any stereotypes about the Netherlands? Is it true that we, quote-unquote, are very direct?
Zeynep: Yes. Well, I always say that I can even be way more direct than any Dutch person.
Jeroen: If some of your colleagues are listening now, they can probably confirm.
Zeynep: I can definitely be way more direct than any Dutch person, yes. They’re direct. The directness is definitely the case. And also their agility to welcome international citizens — how they host expats and make it such an international environment.
Jeroen: And about Turkey, are there particular stereotypes about Turkey that you hear often?
Zeynep: Well, I think we’re super nice hosts. We love to host.
Jeroen: Hospitable people.
Zeynep: Hospitable people. That’s for sure.
Jeroen: And you grew up in Turkey most of the time, right? Is that true or not?
Zeynep: I did grow up in Turkey until the end of my primary school. Then I started to get out of Turkey and moved to different countries and cities.
Jeroen: What kind of setting did you grow up in? And where in Turkey, by the way?
Zeynep: I lived in Istanbul. I was born in Istanbul. I lived in Istanbul. In terms of the setting: my parents were both working parents, both in the public sector — hardworking, let me say it that way, but also raised me in a very loving family.
Jeroen: And how did the family look? Were there many children? Do you have siblings?
Zeynep: I don’t have siblings, I’m the only one. But I do have a lot of cousins. And like many Turkish families, we’re actually quite a number of people living close to each other. A very bonded family. I’ve got three aunts and one uncle — actually four aunts and one uncle — and quite a number of cousins. And we’re all from Istanbul, and they all still live in Istanbul. So very much in the midst of Turkey, in the best part of Turkey, I would say.
Jeroen: Because it’s a very large city — I’ve been there a long time ago. Did you really live in the big city, or more in the outskirts?
Zeynep: I lived very much in the center of the big city, in a place called Nişantaşı. I think any Turkish person listening to this podcast will immediately know where that is. Later on, we moved a little bit outside the city. And as you can imagine, Istanbul is really large. So I lived both in and outside the city.
Jeroen: And what was specific about the way you grew up? Your parents worked in the public sector, you said. What did the family look like? Were you together all the time? Were they working all the time? How was the setup?
Zeynep: No, I think we were very much living together. Of course, they were working quite hard, but weekends were always quiet and together — the whole family. My parents were also “work hard, party hard” kind of parents. So there were always a lot of guests at our place, or we were always going somewhere over the weekends. So it’s all good memories about the family and my childhood.
Jeroen: And something I often ask Dutch guests: in terms of religion and sport, was that part of your life or not?
Zeynep: Sport was a significant part of our life. I remember every summer — specifically because of my father, who raised me quite fanatically in sports — I did swimming, I played tennis, I did kickboxing… so many different sports, thanks to my father who pushed me hard. And I really enjoyed it as well.
But I also remember that many Turkish families of my generation had summer houses two or three hours from Istanbul. And during the summers, he used to wake me up every weekend at six in the morning, go to the sea with the boat, row the boat, and then drop me in the middle of the sea — and I had to swim back. That was the discipline we had with my father when it came to sports.
Jeroen: Well, that’s a great, great story. Did he actually want you to become a professional sports athlete?
Zeynep: Well, actually, I’m not sure about that. He just wanted me to have some sort of routine in my life and to be busy with my physical fitness. And also, with a child, I appreciate now how much they raised me with sports, because it gives a lot of safety when your child is very engaged in sports.
Jeroen: Yeah. Because your kids are also very much engaged in sports, right? I understood they’re basketball players.
Zeynep: They are passionate basketball players.
Jeroen: Wow. So you pushed them on that as well, like your dad did?
Zeynep: Well, actually, I didn’t push them. When they were four years old — because I have two boys — just like all boys, they were extremely interested in soccer. They started playing football everywhere. And my husband loves soccer, just like every Turkish man. But he said, “Hey, Zeynep, we should take them away from soccer because they may get injured more easily. And I think basketball is a better-quality sport. Why don’t we just let them go towards basketball?” And that’s how it all started, for both of them. It was partly my husband steering it, but they just loved it. I think anything with a ball, they started to love when they were small kids.
Jeroen: Yeah. It’s funny, but it must have to do with the fact that your dad was so much into sports, and then you, and then your husband.
Zeynep: And actually, my husband’s father was also very much into sports as well. So we’re coming from a family who loves sports and is quite athletic — not professionally, but as a hobby, I would say.
Jeroen: Yeah. And the religious part — was that part of your upbringing or not at all?
Zeynep: Not really. I think our religion is very much about being ethical, being true to yourself, helping each other, being connected to each other. I think those were the key principles of our living.
Jeroen: And let’s fast-forward a little bit. At some point you wanted to go to university. So you graduated from high school — or how do you call it in Turkey? I don’t know. Why economics, and why Marmara?
Zeynep: It’s an interesting one. In Turkey, in my generation and still today, in order to go to university, once you graduate from high school you need to take an exam. It all depends on that one exam. I really wanted to study law — that was my passion when I was in high school. But in the exam I ended up responding way better to math questions than to the social questions. And that resulted in me not being placed in law, but in economics. So it was initially not my first choice, but then I loved it.
Jeroen: And Marmara — where is that?
Zeynep: That’s in Istanbul, on the Asian side. It’s one of the top universities in Turkey.
Jeroen: So when I traveled in Turkey a long time ago — 20 years ago or something — I learned that it’s quite competitive, right?
Zeynep: You mean the…
Jeroen: Getting into universities. The grades are important and all of that — much more than what we have here, right?
Zeynep: I guess so. Everything is competition. It starts not even when you’re entering university — even in primary school, to get into the middle school, there’s already huge competition to get into the best schools. We’re raised to aim for the best school, the best university. The competition is significant.
Jeroen: So I guess parents also push their kids quite a lot to get into those schools. Because it’s important, right, if you need to get that degree.
Zeynep: Yes, there’s a great push by the parents.
Jeroen: And your dad, for example — you mentioned he pushed you in sports. So they did the same thing with education?
Zeynep: Well, they definitely did the same thing for education as well. But in general, what I really appreciate is that my parents taught me one thing: whatever you do, be the best at it — do the best of it. Those are the good things I remember about my childhood, and it helped me a lot to become who I am today.
Jeroen: And what kind of student were you? Were you working really hard to get the best grades, or were you also doing all kinds of other things?
Zeynep: I was doing all kinds of other things. Throughout my whole student life, I was very much into sports next to my studies. And back in university, next to my studies, I was also working in different companies — half-day working, half-day studying. That was also amazing. So I would say I was an okay student.
Jeroen: My colleague figured out that you were also at the American University of Beirut.
Zeynep: That’s correct. That was in 1995, yes.
Jeroen: That was during your student time?
Zeynep: Yes, during my studies — and I was there because of my father’s work. So I started at the American University of Beirut, which is quite a famous university where many famous politicians graduate from. It was really a fantastic full year. And then later on, my parents moved out, so I came back to Turkey.
Jeroen: But they were in public service, yet they traveled a lot then.
Zeynep: My father was working for Turkish Airlines, and he was heading the offices in those cities and countries — yes, yes.
Jeroen: Okay. Publicly owned, but still kind of a business then, more.
Zeynep: Yeah, exactly. It’s more like that.
Jeroen: Yeah, because when you said public service, I felt like really for the government.
Zeynep: Public sector, I said.
Jeroen: Public sector, yes. Yes. I see, I see. Oh, that’s why you were—
Zeynep: Airlines. Yes, exactly.
Jeroen: I get it. I get it.
Voice-over: This is Leaders in Finance with Jeroen Broekema.
Jeroen: So how did you make the decision to go into auditing, to Andersen?
Zeynep: Well, it was my last year at university when one of my professors asked me, “Hey Zeynep, I think you should stay at the university and continue an academic career, get a PhD.” And I really loved my studies. I really enjoyed studying economics and I was very much into it.
Then one day I was sitting with my uncle, who is also a banker, and he said, “Hey Zeynep, maybe you should consider applying to Andersen.” I said, “Okay, well, tell me — what is it?” And he said Andersen is really good, they have audit, they have consulting.
So it wasn’t my first intention to go into audit. But then they came to visit our university, I joined the interviews, and being recruited by Andersen was one of the best opportunities in Turkey — a lot of people applied and only a few were selected. So yes, it ended up being the right thing for me.
Jeroen: And you were really good with numbers, so that helped, I guess.
Zeynep: I guess so. I just enjoyed it as well, yeah.
Jeroen: And then I was wondering: you were at Andersen — what kind of employee were you in those first years of your career?
Zeynep: I think I was super curious. I was pushing myself forward for everything that was ahead of me. I was excited, loved doing it. Probably in the beginning I thought that working too hard was the best thing ever. The most important thing: I was super curious, putting myself forward, whatever was there, grabbing all the opportunities.
And at that time, when I started at Andersen, a few years later in 2001, the biggest economic crisis happened in Turkey. That was when all those interesting banks started to go bankrupt, and the government started to take over those banks. There were a lot of mergers and acquisitions happening. And I found myself in the midst of all those interesting transactions — a lot of pre-privatizations as well. Those years were the best times of my life.
Yes, it ended up with me working very hard, long hours. I do remember once receiving an email from Chicago at Andersen: “Your timesheet says you worked 20 hours every day. Can this be a mistake?” No, it wasn’t. It wasn’t a mistake.
Jeroen: You said, “I’m good with numbers.” So I know what 20 hours is — but that’s extreme, right? You cannot do that forever, right?
Zeynep: No, that’s not sustainable. But we did it. We did it for quite a long time. I do remember, I think between 2000 and 2003, I worked quite a lot of long hours.
Jeroen: How did you manage? Because that feels like a marathon every day.
Zeynep: It does, it does. But I liked the nature of the engagements, the nature of the projects, the intensity of what was happening. It was just so good. I think that made me really enjoy what I was doing. And if you enjoy what you’re doing, then you don’t feel it as a burden.
Jeroen: But it also sounds like at some point, because you love what you do and you get a lot of energy out of it, it becomes kind of addictive — or not? You get the thrill and the excitement every time, and you want to keep going. I mean, I can understand that, but maybe you don’t agree.
Zeynep: Well, I mean, it does, yes. It does make you… but also imagine: someone who just graduated from university, very young, suddenly in the middle of all these bank CEOs, talking to ministries, to the government. It feels completely different. You feel so proud of yourself. And you just feel like, yes, I need to work — being here is an exception. So let me keep working, because you don’t get this opportunity a lot in your life.
Those were the times when I was between 23 and 27. The number of C-suite leaders I met in Turkey, the number of government bureaucrats, the ministers I met — it was tremendous and priceless. I could have never had those opportunities if I had not put myself forward into those hard engagements and projects.
Jeroen: Was there a point where you understood: this is not sustainable? It brings a lot, which you just described, but did you ever reach a point where you felt, “Okay, I can’t take this anymore”?
Zeynep: No, never.
Jeroen: So what made you go from 20 hours to something more sustainable?
Zeynep: Well, it was never literally 20 hours every day. Of course, that’s not sustainable. But on average, it was always long hours. And the feeling of being selected for those big projects, the feeling of working with the best partners, the most senior partners around you — again, the feeling of the stakeholders you were working with — it just kept you going. At least for me, it served my purpose, it served my ambition. So I just loved it.
Jeroen: I can imagine that at some point, what I like about what you describe is that it’s kind of noblesse oblige — because you’re in that role, you feel you need to deliver on it.
Zeynep: Yes, exactly.
Jeroen: You don’t want to disappoint anyone.
Zeynep: You don’t want to disappoint anyone. And also, in our industry, it can happen that you start with five people in a team, and then all of a sudden four of them leave. And now you’re just one of them — yes, just there, one or two people taking the burden of all the hard work and the delivery. But after all those years, I just feel super proud. And no, I would never have wanted to do it differently.
Jeroen: What were the number one or two things you had to learn most in those first years? When you look back, what is it that you really learned over time?
Zeynep: At an early stage, what I really learned was: Zeynep, ask the right questions. It’s all about asking the right questions. If you want to know, you need to ask the right questions. And again, I’m so grateful for all those days, because the number of discussions, the meetings, the initiatives I was part of — it helped me a lot to learn what banking really was, how the whole kitchen was working behind the scenes. It helped me to learn the entire financial services sector. But really, being curious and asking the right questions is the most important thing. And never worry about asking questions — whether it’s a stupid question or not — just ask the question.
Jeroen: Nice one. Is this also your number one tip for people starting their careers right now? Asking the right questions? Or is there something else?
Zeynep: Well, for me, yes — definitely asking the right questions is something you really need to do, especially if you want to be a good consultant. But as a tip, I would definitely say: don’t stay in your comfort zone. Don’t accept the status quo and dare to lead. Dare to do things you have not done before. Dare to fail.
Jeroen: Are you a Brené Brown fan as well? Dare to Lead?
Zeynep: Yes, for sure.
Jeroen: Do you think a lot of people stay in their comfort zone?
Zeynep: Yes.
Jeroen: Do you see that at EY as well, and in other places you’ve worked?
Zeynep: Well, yes, sometimes I do see it. And then you end up being mediocre. So it’s a choice you make: whether you want to be mediocre and stay in your comfort zone, or you want to try something different.
Jeroen: So you, when you… I guess you coach people, you manage—I don’t know—hundreds of people. I think 600 or something?
Zeynep: 600 people.
Jeroen: 600 people. So you need to engage with a lot of those people. Is that also where you push people to get out of their comfort zone and try something they’ve never done before? Is that what people know you for as well?
Zeynep: Yes. I mean, I do demand a lot as well, but I’m also quite demanding on myself. And what I always say is: there is no end to learning. Again, it brings me back to curiosity—asking questions, learning. Investing in yourself by asking questions, by keeping on learning, by doing something different. The more you’re intellectual, the more you’re surrounded with many things, the stronger you are.
Jeroen: Well put.
Zeynep: Yeah. That’s my few cents, I would say.
Jeroen: Yeah, that’s great. At some point you left Istanbul. If I’m not mistaken, from my introduction, it was first Amsterdam.
Zeynep: That’s true.
Jeroen: What made you go there? What was the trigger event?
Zeynep: The first time I left for Amsterdam was because of my boyfriend—who’s now my husband—who moved to Amsterdam because of his job.
Jeroen: Turkish?
Zeynep: He’s Turkish as well. He moved to Amsterdam, so I sort of followed him.
Jeroen: You followed him, but you already had a job? Or you got a job afterwards?
Zeynep: Actually, he moved first, and a year later I also moved—with EY. It was an internal transfer within EY from Turkey to Amsterdam.
Jeroen: And later on, he followed you? Or did you keep following him?
Zeynep: Well, actually… no. A lot of people joke about it. They say: “Zeynep, you go after your husband, then he leaves, then you follow him again.” It’s a big joke between us. I came to the Netherlands and followed him. Then he went to St. Petersburg—I followed him. Then to Almaty—I followed him again. In Almaty, I came back to Istanbul because I got a call from EY Istanbul saying, “Hey Zeynep, it’s great. EY has been accommodating your life for some time, and you’re doing a great job, but now we need you in EY Turkey. Can you please come back?” So that’s why.
Jeroen: And then he followed you?
Zeynep: Actually, he did follow me after one and a half years. He stayed with me for another one and a half years, and then he moved back to Russia again.
Jeroen: Wow. Well, there must be a point where he’s just going to follow you because you’ve moved somewhere.
Zeynep: Then in 2016, I came to the Netherlands. This time, I got a call from EY Netherlands asking whether I would be interested to join the Dutch practice. And together with my husband, we thought that was a good idea. So I moved to the Netherlands. After I moved, when I was here with our two sons, he was actually in Croatia. And he came after two years—so he followed me.
Jeroen: So you lived in St. Petersburg, in Moscow, and in Almaty. When you now look back at that time and at the current situation with Russia and Ukraine—the war and everything—how do you think about this? Because you lived there, you made friends there, you spoke the language partly. Do you look at it very differently, or did you always see this coming?
Zeynep: Well, actually, I wasn’t expecting it to come this far. Let me say it this way—this far. But it’s also quite emotional, because the times I had in Russia were some of my best times in terms of the friendships I made there. The life I had—it was really fantastic. The friends, the Russian friends, the community I had. So it feels a bit emotional because I think the people within Russia versus what’s happening are not the same. I’ve got quite a lot of friends. I also have many Ukrainian friends as well. So yes—unfortunate politics. I would have never expected it to go this far.
Jeroen: Yeah. And probably currently you wouldn’t be working in Russia.
Zeynep: Yeah, I would not be working there. But also—imagine, we had a firm in EY in Russia. And a lot of people, a lot of my good Russian friends within EY, Russian partners, had to move around the globe. They had to leave Russia as well.
Jeroen: Let’s ask a couple of questions about your work at EY, because I’m curious. There are so many things — from business risk to technology to all kinds of advisory, and also in different sectors. A lot in financial services, otherwise you wouldn’t be here. But I’m curious: are there particular topics you’re mostly interested in? Because when I look at LinkedIn, I see a lot on tech and AI. Is that the one you’re most excited about?
Zeynep: Absolutely. Anything that is new innovation, I’m interested in. Whether you call it tech or not, because innovation by itself is not only technology. But I’m super interested in tech for sure, because it’s a key element of innovation. Yes, that’s my area of interest, I would say. I’m not born in tech, I’m not tech in origin, but it’s my passion.
Jeroen: Are the banks and insurers and asset managers and all kinds of other financial service institutions able to innovate in general? If you look, for example, at the Netherlands?
Zeynep: Yes, they’re doing their best. But is the innovation at full speed? Not really. But yes — innovation is on top of everyone’s mind. You need to innovate to survive.
Jeroen: Because a lot of people say: as long as they make a lot of money — and most of them do — there’s not much drive to actually innovate. Do you agree with that?
Zeynep: I do agree with that. But on the other hand, when your profitability gets under stress with all these uncertainties, you eventually need to innovate. You need to look for new business models. You need to find a way, especially in the financial sector, to compete with the new competition that is coming ahead of you — which was not the case in the past. So the environment pushes you to innovate. That doesn’t mean that all companies are putting their full force and all their bets on innovation, but the environment is pushing them to do so.
Voice-over: This is the Leaders in Finance podcast with Jeroen Broekema.
Jeroen: I’m trying to get some free consulting here — the opportunity I have today. But if you look at a major financial institution, let’s say a bank or a large insurance company: where to start with innovation if you are at board level? If you’re the CEO and you say, “I really want to innovate more, I really want to change more,” what are the very first things you should be doing?
Zeynep: I would definitely look into reimagining all my processes. If it’s a bank, reimagine — for example — your mortgage processes.
Jeroen: And what exactly is that?
Zeynep: Well, for example, your mortgages. There are so many things that you would not imagine — that in such big banks are still being handled manually. There is so much opportunity to turn those…
Jeroen: But is that innovation, or is that more like driving for efficiency?
Zeynep: That’s more driving for efficiency, for sure. But then innovating through different emerging tech enablers could also present itself as innovation.
Jeroen: Yeah, no, I agree. But these are…
Zeynep: But on the other hand, to your point around innovation — if you look at, for example, the banking sector, in my view the biggest challenges are around digital assets and payments. The way money is moving today is going in a totally different direction. So this is where the banks need to step up their game and innovate to be able to compete with this.
Jeroen: Because will they have a hard time at some point competing with the major payments institutions, but also maybe the neobanks? Like Revolut is going really fast, right?
Zeynep: It is, it is. And their agility, their infrastructure, their platform environment — compared to the large banks operating today on a very large scale — yes, for sure, it is.
Jeroen: Let’s go back to the initial question. You said it’s really important to ask the right question. So hopefully this is the right one. What are the first few things that I, as a CEO of a major bank, should do? Do I need to bring other people in as well? Or do I need to start businesses under other brand names to really innovate? Not only efficiency, but real innovation — real change.
Zeynep: Yeah, I think it’s also daring to innovate. Partnerships — dare to innovate, dare to fail. Move from short-term profitability towards a long-term vision.
Jeroen: And about the people — do you need different people for that? Or can you keep people who have been there for 20, 30 years?
Zeynep: You need different people as well. You can change all the processes, but if you continue delivering with the same people, it won’t deliver the impact you are aiming for.
Jeroen: You guys at your firm are really active in terms of doing things with AI and advising on AI, and all kinds of labs, etc. So I ask this question to many people: AI — is it a hype, or is it ultimately going to change everything? Where do you stand between hype and “change everything”?
Zeynep: I’m definitely not in the position to say it’s hype. It is going to change. It’s about how we prepare ourselves for it. And the effort needed to implement it is huge. It’s obvious — it needs investments from everyone to try. But it will for sure change things.
Jeroen: And will it also change the whole system — the whole financial sector and the way it operates? Could you imagine, for example, in mortgages… you mentioned mortgages before. Could you have mortgages with only a few people working there? Now there are thousands of people working in the mortgage industry. I don’t know.
Zeynep: It’s a hard question. I mean, of course — and I’m not a banker by origin — but I don’t think you can run the entire mortgage process with only a few people. But definitely, with AI, you would significantly decrease the number.
Jeroen: I wrote down a quote, which says — I think you said it before, or maybe EY — but I think it was “from pilot to performance.” Everything around the idea that there are a lot of AI pilots, but scaling to large-scale deployment is really difficult.
Zeynep: Yeah, that is also one of our surveys that came out in the corporate banking environment as well. It’s true. Developing a POC is not the difficult thing. In my view, that is the easiest part. But putting the POC into production is where the complexity starts. Because putting it into production is not only about coding — it’s making sure the rest of the guardrails around the new process or the new implementation you’re doing are working well: your data security, your data privacy, cyber risk. There are many, many responsible AI requirements.
It’s the whole thing — putting something into production is not only the job of the business or of technology; it’s the job of the whole bank. It’s an end-to-end value chain where the entire organization needs to take part. And that’s where the complexity starts.
Assume you put an agent into one process. Okay… but now that you’ve implemented an agent, how does the rest of the bank’s organization deal with that agent? That was not the case before. So there is real complexity in terms of putting things into production. But once you put it into production and once you’ve tested it out, then the scalability is — of course — easier to go.
Jeroen: I wanted to talk with you about being a consultant, because you started in audit and now you’re more in consulting. First of all, how different is being in audit compared to being a consultant?
Zeynep: Well, actually, being an auditor — especially when I was an audit partner — meant that most of the time I was in boardrooms dealing with a lot of challenges before signing off the financial statements, but also having the ability to understand what is really happening. As a consultant, the agility, the dynamism of delivering, running after new opportunities, creating your business — the entrepreneurship — is what I really love compared to audit. Audit is more standard work that you need to know, and you deal with many complex areas, but in consulting the whole agility of creating your own business is what excites me the most and what I really like.
Jeroen: Ultimately, you like consulting more?
Zeynep: I do like consulting more, for sure. But I’m grateful for all the audit years I’ve been through, because that’s where I learned a lot.
Jeroen: Yeah, because I guess in auditing you really, really learn how the bank — or whatever institution it is — works, right?
Zeynep: Whatever the company you’re auditing, you see everything. But there is one similarity: if you want to be a good auditor and a good consultant, you really need to know your client. You need to know the challenges of your client, the sector they operate in, what the competition is doing. You need in-depth expertise to be a good auditor or a good consultant. So in both roles there is one common thing: it’s about knowing your client, knowing the environment your client operates in, knowing their stakeholders.
However, the pace, the agility, the frequency with which you need to get out of your comfort zone in consulting is much higher than in audit. And it also feels in consulting that — especially when you deliver a service that is value-adding — you are actually fixing an issue for your client, and that is priceless for me.
Jeroen: And you said that during your auditing years you were often in boardrooms talking to the C-level. Now you manage a large team, but apparently you still have time to be with customers, with clients as well. Is that still mainly at C-level, or more within your own organization?
Zeynep: It’s C-level, C-1. But for me it’s really all about clients. I would say their job is my clients. I’m passionate about my clients.
Jeroen: You still need to manage 600 people as well.
Zeynep: I do, but it’s also about passion. It’s twofold, I always say — internally, it’s about clients and our people. We serve our clients in the best possible way, we deliver the best experience, we add value. But at the same time, we make sure our people grow and are proud of where they work.
Jeroen: I guess, being the one who is ultimately responsible for all of this, you are involved often when there are issues or challenges, right?
Zeynep: Yes.
Jeroen: They want to see the boss. Is that how it works?
Zeynep: Well, let’s not say “boss,” but yes.
Jeroen: They want to see the one that’s ultimately responsible for all of it.
Zeynep: Exactly. In this position, you’re just sort of there to fix the issues internally as well. And that’s what excites me, because I just love it when there’s a challenge, when there’s a problem. The feeling of getting it done — or more than getting it done, being able to fix it — whether it’s for our clients, for my own firm, or for my people, that’s what makes me really happy.
Jeroen: I was wondering: if you win a big project with a large insurer or a bank or any other financial institution, it takes some time, right? You need to write proposals, and ultimately you get it or you don’t. Is it always about the content, or is it also about relationships?
Zeynep: In my view, you cannot win any proposal if the client doesn’t know you well — if the client doesn’t trust you. Especially these days, when there’s so much uncertainty and so many cross-pressures, our clients are looking for a partner they can really trust, someone they can partner with, someone who can do what they themselves cannot do and fix it. So relationships are very important. But you also build relationships over time by showing the content, by providing the content. So it’s a mix of both, but relationships in our business — building relationships, building networks, building powerful relationships — is critical.
Jeroen: And obviously, if you like someone a lot but you don’t deliver, then from a business side it’s over, right?
Zeynep: Exactly. Exactly.
Jeroen: Does it ultimately mean that a lot of your customers return? Let’s say they do an assignment with you today, but then they become an audit client so you can’t work with them for five or ten years. Do they come back because they remember the relationship was good? Does it work like that?
Zeynep: Well, if you have built a powerful relationship, if you have left an impact, if you have changed something for them, they will definitely come back and call you.
Jeroen: Well, let’s make a hard turn. These are the only questions I gave you beforehand — I give them to everyone joining this podcast. These are the so-called five unusual questions. And when I asked you before we started, I said they’re quite unusual, and you were like, “Well, I’m not sure if they’re that unusual.” But anyway: the first one — and you’ve seen them before, as I said — do you have a somewhat unusual hobby, or something you like to do in your personal life, that maybe even your 600 people would be surprised to learn?
Zeynep: I’m not sure if it’s unusual, but I do kickbox. Now it’s more like a hobby. I used to do it really intensely when I was in my teenage years.
Jeroen: So you’re very strong then, I guess.
Zeynep: I guess so. Yes, I am.
Jeroen: Because — I don’t know much about kickboxing, so forgive me — but it’s a kind of fighting, right?
Zeynep: Well, it’s a lot of conditioning as well. It’s about the full movement of your body. It’s a lot of legs and arms, conditioning, strength — it just makes your full body work. It’s a full-body workout.
Jeroen: You do it once a week, or…?
Zeynep: Once a week. Once a week.
Jeroen: With a trainer or alone?
Zeynep: With a trainer. With a trainer.
Jeroen: Just one-on-one?
Zeynep: Just one-on-one.
Jeroen: And then afterwards you’re dead, pretty much.
Zeynep: Yeah… well, yes, exactly. I get quite a bit of sweat, that’s true.
Jeroen: Is it a way to offload stress as well?
Zeynep: Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. And I mean, again, I said: is it unusual? I don’t know. But when I say to people that I do kickboxing…
Jeroen: Well, maybe sports not, but kickboxing might be a little bit unusual, at least for some. Great. And do you have a well-known person that you idolize? So not talking about parents or brothers or sisters — in your case it doesn’t matter if it is them — but I mean more publicly known people. Is there someone that inspires you?
Zeynep: Okay, so you said not parents, right? Okay.
Jeroen: You can, you can say them as well — but maybe on top of that.
Zeynep: I mean, I must admit that my true inspiration is my parents, specifically my mother. They raised me so well — in such a loving and cuddling environment — but also they raised me with balanced freedom, where they enabled me to stand on my feet, run after my dreams, stand by my rights, but also be extroverted, speak out. That’s why I’m truly inspired by them and how they raised me.
But also their ongoing support to me, even now, and their discipline in how they personally take care of themselves mentally and physically. My parents are 73 and 78. It inspires me a lot.
Jeroen: That’s great.
Zeynep: They just have a motivation to go.
Jeroen: Yeah. And they’re in Istanbul?
Zeynep: They’re in Istanbul.
Jeroen: They must be sometimes sad about the fact that you lived in all these countries, I guess, or not?
Zeynep: Well, actually no. First, they can travel a lot. And whenever I call them — unless there’s something important in their day-to-day life — they’ll just come over. It just takes one phone call.
Jeroen: Wow, that’s great. Do you call them every other day or…?
Zeynep: I speak to my mother probably two or three times a day.
Jeroen: A day? Wow.
Zeynep: My father probably every two days.
Jeroen: So everywhere there’s a minute in between, you just… wow. So you’re actually really close then?
Zeynep: Very close.
Jeroen: Super close.
Zeynep: Yes. Yes, very close.
Jeroen: So you know everything about each other’s lives then?
Zeynep: Very much.
Jeroen: Wow. Very much. What’s the number one thing your parents gave you that you’re now giving to your kids?
Zeynep: The love, the affection. Love is very important. If you raise your kids with love — with unconditional love — then they become super confident people in the future.
Jeroen: Wow. Beautiful. Okay.
Zeynep: But then, the second one to your question — the famous person who inspires me — is Jamie Dimon, the JP Morgan CEO. I just love the guy.
Jeroen: Why is that?
Zeynep: Well, actually, his leadership and his resilience. And I remember back in 2008, during the whole crisis when everyone was going bankrupt or having huge losses — the way he led the whole bank… he was one of the few who was still making profits. His style, his client-centricity, is what inspires me a lot.
Jeroen: Did you meet him?
Zeynep: I haven’t met him, but I do show his videos to inspire my people as well. I remember at my last partner offsite — we were talking all about clients, clients, clients, because it’s about the clients and our people — and at the end I closed the session by putting on one of his YouTube videos where he was speaking somewhere, I don’t remember exactly where. But he was saying: “Talk to clients, talk to clients. Go out. Go out. Observe. Observe.” I love it.
Jeroen: Yeah. We have invited him for the College Leaders in Finance — like with Lagarde and others. So far, they have not said yes, but also not said no. We should try to get him to the Netherlands.
Zeynep: That would be fantastic. If you get him to the Netherlands, I would love to make sure I’m there.
Jeroen: Well, we now have it on the record that you’ve told everyone how great he is. So, the third one is on a very different note: what has been the scariest moment in your life?
Zeynep: When I found out my father had stage-four lymphoma cancer back in 2017.
Jeroen: Oh wow. And it’s going well now?
Zeynep: So far, so good.
Jeroen: So far — fingers crossed.
Zeynep: So far, so good, yes. He’s doing great. He’s also one of my inspirations — how he kept motivating us. A guy who loves to live.
Jeroen: Wow. But it must have been a shock at the time.
Zeynep: It was a shock.
Jeroen: Yeah.
Zeynep: Yes. A big shock.
Jeroen: So were you traveling back and forth all the time?
Zeynep: Yes, I was traveling back and forth every weekend, making sure that I saw him with my own eyes. It took us almost a full year and a half to fully recover.
Jeroen: Wow.
Zeynep: It has been a bumpy road, but looking back now, he probably motivated us more than we motivated him.
Jeroen: Wow. That makes very clear why that has been a scary moment — and maybe still a little bit.
Voice over: Leaders in Finance with Jeroen Broekema.
Jeroen: You’re given 200 million right now — personal bank account, not your business bank account, but the Zeynep Deldag bank account. But the thing is, you need to spend it within a week or two.
Zeynep: Okay.
Jeroen: Where does it go?
Zeynep: I would immediately — the first thing — spend it on charities and social causes. I really, truly believe every child should get an equal opportunity. And I feel very bad for orphans, for children without parents. I also have a personal interest in visiting orphanages whenever I have time, spending time with the kids. So I would definitely spend quite a bit of the money there.
Jeroen: So you’re already donating to that?
Zeynep: Yes, I am. But not only donating — every few years I also spend half a day going to the orphanages and playing with the kids.
Jeroen: So you volunteer there?
Zeynep: Yeah, yeah.
Jeroen: Is that here or in Turkey?
Zeynep: It’s in Turkey. It’s not a recurring volunteer activity, but I do it quite a bit.
Jeroen: Why orphanages? Because that’s very particular, very specific.
Zeynep: Because I’ve been raised in such a family — full of parents, full of love, unconditional love. And when I see children without parents, it always makes me feel sad. I just feel like giving them the love they need, because if love is missing at a small age, you eventually enter the rest of your life weak.
Jeroen: It’s the largest setback you can have in life.
Zeynep: Exactly — the largest setback you can have in life.
Jeroen: Well put. Yeah.
Zeynep: So definitely, part of it I would spend there. Secondly, I would spend part of it on investing in innovation — start-ups, seed funding in new tech areas where it could change the world. Any innovation that could help, for example, sick children with non-curable diseases. Those kinds of things — I would definitely spend part of it there. And then, if I need to spend it within one or two weeks, part of it I would use for a quick travel, enjoy myself, personal leisure.
Jeroen: What would you do? Because technically, you could already do that now, right?
Zeynep: I can already do that, but still — you suddenly get all this money, right? Why not take off immediately?
Jeroen: So what would you do?
Zeynep: I haven’t thought about it much, but I think I would do a small tour around interesting places — places like Cambodia, Vietnam — places I’ve never been to and never really planned, but I do want to go.
Jeroen: But it’s probably more time that you need.
Zeynep: Exactly. Not the money — you’re absolutely right. And then the fourth thing…
Jeroen: I’m not saying you have 200 million to spend right now, but still.
Zeynep: No, you’re right. You’re absolutely right. I would definitely do that. But the fourth thing, of course, would be growing my own wealth and what I would eventually leave to my kids as heritage — just growing part of it further for my own wealth.
Jeroen: Oh, wow. It’s a very all-encompassing answer. And then the 200 million is gone, right?
Zeynep: And the 200 million is just not that at all — I mean, just gone. But definitely more would go to charity or those kinds of social impacts.
Jeroen: Last unusual question. If you could change, or had to change, one thing from the past, what would it be? A decision you made — not something that happened to you, but something that happened because of you.
Zeynep: I don’t want to sound arrogant, but I wouldn’t change a single decision. I would not. Why? Because if I hadn’t made all those wrong decisions, I would not have been where I am, and I would not have learned. And I continue to make really wrong decisions.
Jeroen: Are you good at telling people, “This was stupid of me”? Or are you kind of…
Zeynep: Yes. Very good.
Jeroen: Yeah?
Zeynep: I’m always very open. I am an open book.
Jeroen: I’ve asked about tips, I’ve asked the unusual questions… there’s one other thing that always comes back in these interviews, which is: do you have one or a couple of books that you’d like to share for our reading list? Because from all the 192 C-level people we’ve interviewed, we’ve made this long list of everything they read. It’s super diverse, but there are a couple of books that keep coming back. Could you add one as well?
Zeynep: Yeah, I could even add probably two — among many others. So, Grit by Angela Duckworth.
Jeroen: About perseverance?
Zeynep: Yeah, about perseverance. It’s about the key ingredients of success, and resilience is all about being persistent and also passionate. And that’s what I am. I get driven by my passion. The second one is A Longstanding Man, a biography by Duff McDonald. It’s about Jamie Dimon, about how he turned JPMorgan into a success in the midst of all that crisis.
Jeroen: You should really meet him.
Zeynep: I really do want to meet him.
Jeroen: This is the second time you’re mentioning him.
Zeynep: So I really do want to meet with him.
Jeroen: Yeah, we should make that happen at some point.
Zeynep: I think that would be fantastic.
Jeroen: Yeah, we should make that happen. I think a lot of people love to speak to him. There’s always one thing — and it’s probably very Dutch — that people don’t like about him. Or they’re probably jealous, in my opinion, that he earns about 50 million a year or something. That’s something people always mention. I don’t know if I’m correct on the number, by the way.
Zeynep: To be honest, that’s also one of the things. If he deserves it, let him earn it, right? I don’t care. It’s great that he’s earning it, but if he’s deserving it, that’s what matters. I think we, as people, should compete with our own selves — be better versions of our own selves.
Jeroen: Before we wrap up, is there anything that you would like to add to this conversation? We’ve discussed a lot — personal things, business things — but is there something we should have touched upon?
Zeynep: Thinking… no, not really. We’ve covered a lot, a lot of personal stuff, right?
Jeroen: Maybe one thing that comes to mind, which we haven’t talked about, is female leadership. Because I said in the beginning, I’ve known you for quite a while already — not as well as after this conversation, because this always helps to get to know someone even better. But you are very bullish on female leadership, right? It’s really important for you. Or maybe I should rephrase: diverse leadership — not only women, but all kinds of backgrounds. That’s correct?
Zeynep: That are competent.
Jeroen: That are competent, yeah.
Zeynep: That is the most important thing. I’m not bullish on just different backgrounds or female leadership — but on competent females and competent people from different backgrounds. That I’m super bullish about.
Jeroen: And why is that? Because of your background, because you’ve seen that? Or because you think diverse teams work better? Or both?
Zeynep: I think diverse teams work better. Diverse teams for sure work better. Diverse backgrounds work better. It’s about different cultures where you’re raised. Just to give you an example: I come from an emerging market, right? Turkey is an emerging market. It’s not about being female — I come from an emerging market. Today it could be a fantastic market; the next morning you wake up, it could be a disaster. So we are raised to be survivors and to be agile. A person like me can easily handle changing environments and make a U-turn when it comes to strategy or doing things differently. So different backgrounds and where you are raised can also help your business significantly.
Jeroen: Makes sense to me.
Zeynep: Just to give you an example.
Jeroen: So this is the one I brought up, but is there anything else from your side that we should have been covering?
Zeynep: No, I think we’ve covered quite a bit. Quite a bit.
Jeroen: I guess.
Zeynep: Maybe one thing I would add — because we discussed a lot about sports — is that what is also very important, and what I really admire, is the discipline and resilience of athletes. Seeing my son, who wakes up at five in the morning, goes to training, comes back, has his breakfast, goes to school, gets his lessons done — but he also needs to make sure he gets the best grades to stay in the team. In the afternoon he goes back to training, then has his dinner and goes to sleep early when his friends are having fun. So at a young age, the discipline that athletes have is so critical for success. So if I were to hire people today, I would love to hire many athletes to EY.
Jeroen: Did you already?
Zeynep: Yes, we do. Yes, indeed.
Jeroen: Because that’s a mindset, right?
Zeynep: That’s a mindset. It’s the discipline. It’s the resilience.
Jeroen: I think it’s a kind of mindset you also see with a lot of entrepreneurs.
Zeynep: Exactly.
Jeroen: Because ultimately you’re put under pressure a lot.
Zeynep: Working under pressure.
Jeroen: The danger, obviously, with what I’ve seen with athletes in business is often that they just go too far. They’re too intense, and they’re not sustainable anymore. Like we spoke about at the beginning of this conversation — you cannot work 20 hours a day, every day. Sports people should know they need to rest, but in practice they’re not always good at it.
Zeynep: That could be the case, because they’re coming from a competitive background. Competition is what they’re used to — it’s a winning mindset. But on the other hand, that’s why having a diverse background, having diverse characters within your team, is important. You’re not going to only have athletes. You’re not going to only have females. You’re not going to only have a few nations. It’s just diverse. The more diverse, the better it is.
Jeroen: Maybe that’s a lovely last sentence. I loved this conversation. I really enjoyed it. I learned a lot — I’ve been writing down a lot of things. A lot of very interesting and strong quotes. And as I said earlier, I also got to know you even better than I already did. So thanks so much.
Two things I will definitely remember: we need to get Jamie Dimon to the Netherlands. And love is the essence of everything. If you don’t have love in your upbringing — it sounded to me, and these are my words — that because of all the love you got as a kid, you were able to live in other countries and far away, because you always had this essence of life that supported you. Again, my words, but it feels like that made you able to travel and live wherever you wanted.
Zeynep: And that’s what my kids are doing at the moment.
Jeroen: They’re in the US. Yeah, far away.
Zeynep: They’re super happy kids.
Jeroen: Great. And you’re as much in touch with them as with your parents?
Zeynep: Well, actually, let’s not forget — they’re boys.
Jeroen: Detail. Minor detail.
Zeynep: But yes, I would say sufficiently enough.
Jeroen: Wonderful. Zeynep, thanks a lot for your time and for this conversation. Normally, I give people the Leaders in Finance book, but you already have it, so I’m not going to give it again. But thanks again for being with us.
Zeynep: Thank you so much for having me here.
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